Barix in/exstreamers....

Gotta watch those Fresnel zones!
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K9EZ
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Barix in/exstreamers....

Post by K9EZ » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:10 pm

This is the first time I am working with the Barix boxes.. Having a dickens of a time getting a stream to them. I have to set the buffer to over 2000 ms to get even a 40kbs stream. The Barix sample feed is fine. I haev tried from 3 different locations with all of the same lack of bandwidth getting to the receiver box.

Any ideas??? Argggggg
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Re: Barix in/exstreamers....

Post by Dale H. Cook » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:07 pm

Kent -

Are you using the same IP provider at both ends so that you are entirely within their private network, or are you going across the public internet?
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Re: Barix in/exstreamers....

Post by K9EZ » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:23 pm

2 of the locations are Time Warner. So yes. It's like I am being throttled. I set the latency to 2000 ms and still can only get 40 khz. Not good. That and we are less than 2 miles away.
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Re: Barix in/exstreamers....

Post by K9EZ » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:24 pm

BTW Dale... I will be in Roanoke tomorrow for the SHE meeting and to visit Q99
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Re: Barix in/exstreamers....

Post by Dale H. Cook » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:45 pm

K9EZ wrote:2 of the locations are Time Warner. So yes. It's like I am being throttled.
Kent -

Do you know if the two Time Warner locations are connected entirely through their fiber? It sound more like the class of Barix problem that I've seen when the ends are with different IP providers. When I've had both ends connected exclusively by Verizon fiber I've had a lot less trouble.

[Edit] I just noticed the 2 mile part. Could there be some weird bridges or taps along the path? It sounds to me like TW should be able to ring out the circuit and see what is happening. I'm used to doing that sort of thing myself with T1 lines, but my BERTs won't help with an IP connection. In any case I thing somebody will have to drag in some specialized hardware or software to analyze the connection.

If you are going to be at the Q99 studios see if you can buttonhole Tony Broom who is Leonard's IT wizard (I started pushing bits through mainframes 45 years ago and started working with broadcast minis 30 years ago, so I don't use the term "IT wizard" lightly). Tony in turn might want to talk to Leonard's transmitter engineer, Josh Arritt, who will probably be at the WVBE transmitter site in Salem. Josh also handles sundries like some aspects Leonard's Comrex Access connections. Between the two of them they might have better suggestions than I would.
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Re: Barix in/exstreamers....

Post by K9EZ » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:58 am

Dale H. Cook wrote:
K9EZ wrote:2 of the locations are Time Warner. So yes. It's like I am being throttled.
Kent -

Do you know if the two Time Warner locations are connected entirely through their fiber? It sound more like the class of Barix problem that I've seen when the ends are with different IP providers. When I've had both ends connected exclusively by Verizon fiber I've had a lot less trouble.

[Edit] I just noticed the 2 mile part. Could there be some weird bridges or taps along the path? It sounds to me like TW should be able to ring out the circuit and see what is happening. I'm used to doing that sort of thing myself with T1 lines, but my BERTs won't help with an IP connection. In any case I thing somebody will have to drag in some specialized hardware or software to analyze the connection.

If you are going to be at the Q99 studios see if you can buttonhole Tony Broom who is Leonard's IT wizard (I started pushing bits through mainframes 45 years ago and started working with broadcast minis 30 years ago, so I don't use the term "IT wizard" lightly). Tony in turn might want to talk to Leonard's transmitter engineer, Josh Arritt, who will probably be at the WVBE transmitter site in Salem. Josh also handles sundries like some aspects Leonard's Comrex Access connections. Between the two of them they might have better suggestions than I would.
Going to the Q99 transmitter site too! Fun to see a 200kW station..... :-D
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Re: Barix in/exstreamers....

Post by BroadcastDoc » Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:03 pm

When you say that you've tried three different locations, is that studio and transmitter, or just the studio side? You may have an issue on either end.

I feed about eight stations simultaneously via Barix boxes, with very good reliability. They all have different ISP's connecting to us and from locations up to a 200 miles away. These things are pretty bulletproof - I find that the problems revolve around routers and firewalls 99% of the time. Those streams are pretty fragile!
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Re: Barix in/exstreamers....

Post by K9EZ » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:06 am

BroadcastDoc wrote:When you say that you've tried three different locations, is that studio and transmitter, or just the studio side? You may have an issue on either end.

I feed about eight stations simultaneously via Barix boxes, with very good reliability. They all have different ISP's connecting to us and from locations up to a 200 miles away. These things are pretty bulletproof - I find that the problems revolve around routers and firewalls 99% of the time. Those streams are pretty fragile!
Studio ends. The transmitter end gets the sample Bari stream just fine. The "studio" ends have been at homes with 3 - 5 mbps up available. In order to keep a constant stream I need to set the buffer latency to 2000 ms. And till only get 40 mbps. One if the locations was where the actual studio will be. At the homes there is only basic firewall functions and at my house I set the QoS for the highest priority for the stream. Doing atracert it is not a difficult path with only one hope having greater than a 30ms latency.
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Re: Barix in/exstreamers....

Post by Shane » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:39 pm

I'm just getting started with these boxes but in fairly short order I was able to get a PCM stream from my house to feed the studio with about 1 second or less latency. I didn't change the latency setting in the box. For a test I ran a music loop for for a couple of days and recorded 3 hours of the reception through which there was not even a dropout.

My main problem was getting the correct settings at the studio. Our IT Dept had to set it up for port forwarding (they don't let me do that anymore!) and they apparently typo'd something. Once they got that squared away there was very little left to do to get a stream up and running.

My first attempt involved an .mp3 stream which didn't sound good at all. The PCM stream sounded better, as one might expect, but I thought there would be latency and dropout problems streaming uncompressed - there weren't any. I made a recording of the sound going into the Instreamer and a simultaneous one of the audio coming out of the Exstreamer for A/B comparison. To my ears, and to the ears of two of my associates, the output was better than the input! I don't know how that can happen.

I have yet to deploy the instreamer to its final destination so I'll get to see whether that will be trouble or not. I would say something external to the Barix units is definitely going on with your stream.
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Re: Barix in/exstreamers....

Post by BroadcastDoc » Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:23 am

I don't know that I'd go with anything external quite yet. My experiences with those boxes has generally been "plug and play" with several different configurations.

Have you tried moving the receive end to a different location for testing? Even though it gets Barix's feed, we don't really know how they're sending it, or how much latency is really there. That would at least rule in or out that part of it.

Also, are you running it with the STL firmware? That firmware is pretty robust - though I think it requires a "backwards" connection, with the receiver connecting to the transmitter. Not positive on that one.

Also make sure they're all running the same firmware version. Even boxes bought at the same time can have different revs loaded on them.

Those are just a few tips from having set up a bajillion of those!
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Re: Barix in/exstreamers....

Post by fmrfman » Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:55 pm

Some thoughts for you:

1) Maybe IT could program the switch to give you priority/direct route
2) kind of similar to #1 maybe a VPN tunnel?

In reality I am thinking your issue may be much simpler. Tinkering around with the setup may be the key.

Possibly this post will help:

Re: Barix fun

Postby pdeal » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:43 am
We have been using them to stream from our studio to three transmitter sites for about 3 years now. When I first set it up I used the Barix STL document that tells of several ways to get it done. I think I used BRTP in pull mode too. I just tinkered with the quality settings to get it to work. I think they have a table on their web site that shows the data rate for various settings. In our case we don't have static ip anyplace and the cost to get one was significant. I tried using dyndns and it worked but was troublesome. For the last few years I have been using the barix reflector service and it has been very good. No static ip or special settings (open ports) on modems required. Reflector service is $10/mo/device. It has some very nice value added features such as it emails every time it looses contact with a device, smartphone app for monitoring stream.






As with most IT departments broadcasting is of low priority so it can be difficult to get what you need.

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Re: Barix in/exstreamers....

Post by ChuckG » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:22 pm

BroadcastDoc wrote: Also, are you running it with the STL firmware? That firmware is pretty robust - though I think it requires a "backwards" connection, with the receiver connecting to the transmitter. Not positive on that one.
The STL firmware does make a big difference. I have several of these running, all set up for the Extreamer to connect to the Instreamer's IP. As you said- Backwards.
I'm curious what the upload capacity is at the sending end? Some ISP's really hate it when you run a 'server' from a residential connection.
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