1 Pair Ethernet Extender

Gotta watch those Fresnel zones!
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sallen
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1 Pair Ethernet Extender

Post by sallen » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:37 pm

I have two transmitter sites owned by the same company one mile apart. At one point in early 50's they clear cut much of the area around the transmitter sites to build ships. You could stand on the roof of either transmitter site and see the other site. Now 65 years later tress have grown back you no longer have a line of site view. I may be able to get a 900Mhz Ubiquity to work.

There is a dry pair between the two sites I can ship audio on. The length is one mile from demark to demark. They make Ethernet Extender that work on a single pair and claim to extend over a mile with speeds from 5mpbps to 100+mbps. Has any one used this type of extender? Is there one manufacture/model that works well? The dry pair are supplied by Century Link. I have a good working relationship with the local splicer so getting the pairs nice and quiet and point to point with no extra cable going another mile down the road is possible. I could easily do 2 pairs for better speed transfer. What units should I consider? Any one have a link that uses 1 or 2 pairs over a mile?

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kkiddkkidd
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Re: 1 Pair Ethernet Extender

Post by kkiddkkidd » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:31 pm

sallen wrote:I have two transmitter sites owned by the same company one mile apart.
It would be well worth getting a pair of 2.4g NanoBeams to try. 900 would almost certainly do it. Narrow the spectrum down to 10mhz (or even 5). If you could get one or the other (or both) ends above the tree line I think that you will be good on that short of a path. Don't get the new AC stuff it is super fast but doesn't like obstructed paths.

Is this on AM or FM towers?

I have a link right now running thru 1900ft of dense woods and a grazing path across a small ridge that works fine at full bandwidth even in wet spring conditions. The signal isn't perfect but it has good thru put.
--
Kevin C. Kidd CSRE/AMD
WD4RAT
AM Ground Systems Company
http://www.amgroundsystems.com
KK Broadcast Engineering
http://www.kkbc.com

sallen
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Re: 1 Pair Ethernet Extender

Post by sallen » Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:01 pm

These are AM towers and I use Ubiquity already, but not at this site. The tree line I can't make unless I go on the towers and I don't want to do that. Like I said I have the dry pairs and most likely I would eventually back it up with a ubiquity link. I already tested a 900mhz ubiquity and it worked with little effort through the tree's. I didn't optimize it much. I want both, that way I can put the Burks and audio back up on one link and a wifi access point on the other. If one fails I can switch all the traffic on the one still working.

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Deep Thought
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Re: 1 Pair Ethernet Extender

Post by Deep Thought » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:46 pm

The ones I see are basically VDSL2. The StarTech version is $278 on Amazon for both ends, and it has fairly positive reviews.
http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-VDSL ... B002CLKFTG
Mark Mueller • Mueller Broadcast Design • La Grange, IL • http://www.muellerbroadcastdesign.com


TPT
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Re: 1 Pair Ethernet Extender

Post by TPT » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:25 am

I'm a fan of "simple." Buy a $100 eq (like the ART351) & equalize the dry pair. You may need another amp for gain--but I would guess you should be able to get 5~7.5 khz. audio on that dry pair.

sallen
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Re: 1 Pair Ethernet Extender

Post by sallen » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:32 am

I need Network at this location not just for audio backup but for remote control. I already have one of the dry pairs sending audio and I eq that myself. I'm finding that for the new configuration of the remote control I need TCP/IP. This would be a backup/supplement to a Ubiquity link with marginal line of site. The ideal final configuration would be the Ubiquity link, one dry pair carrying TCP/IP and the other carry analog audio. I actually need to transport two analog audio signal from one site to the other as a backup audio source. I'm fine running one or both audio sources over the TCP/IP with a Barrix or similar codec.

This will give me a robust connection between the two sites for data and internet, and maybe a little streaming of Top Chef or Mystery Dinners and the ability to read this forum at either site without chocking out the Ubiquity link or the other way around. I just don't think I'm going to get 40mbps out of the ubiquity and I'm looking at supplementing it with the dry pair tcp/ip repeater because I do have access to dry pairs between the two sites. It would allow a redundant backup link if one fails. I may no longer be able to stream Top Chef but I'll have my audio and network for the Burks.

This way I need only one T1 from the studio for the burk data to one site versus two T1 circuits. Backup audio for both stations is received at one site via analog microwave. I will always have one dry pair for analog audio. I'm looking for a flexible way to use the other dry pair to do a tcp/ip extension to the other site.

grich
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Re: 1 Pair Ethernet Extender

Post by grich » Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:42 pm

Deep Thought wrote:The ones I see are basically VDSL2. The StarTech version is $278 on Amazon for both ends, and it has fairly positive reviews.
http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-VDSL ... B002CLKFTG
I am using a similar StarTech extender in an old bank building where I can't pull Ethernet between the 1st floor studio and the basement offices. I'm using the abandoned cables the bank used for their phone system. Works well, and this solution should work for your dry pair.

dbuckley
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Re: 1 Pair Ethernet Extender

Post by dbuckley » Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:57 pm

If the pair really is a dry pair, has no equalizers, and you have access to the actual copper at both ends, then yeah, plenty of companies make boxes that will put Ethernet over it, and yes, it works, in IT world we used to do this all the time. And the boxes available today are light years ahead of the kit I used to use a decade plus back. The quest for ever increasing performance out of a copper pair for home broadband has driven this work.

The speed you'll get will depend on the length of the line, and the state of the line. DSL works by using many simultaneous carriers at frequencies up to hundreds of KHz, and the lower the losses and the higher the frequency capability of the line, the more bandwidth you'll get.

Also, on most of these systems you can determine the relative share of the bandwidth in each direction. If you're sending audio one way and control bidirectionally, then your line can be asymmetric to favour the audio send direction. Also QoS can favour audio over other stuff to allow a low audio latency connection.

Apologies if any of this is teaching granny to suck eggs :)

rdlafore
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Re: 1 Pair Ethernet Extender

Post by rdlafore » Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:59 pm

I have one of the StarTech devices working on a very convoluted route from my studios to a rooftop penthouse. It works very well. In my case, the run is roughly 500 feet, thru many punchblocks, old wiring etc. It creates a "ADSL" line on a pair of wires.

Mine has been in use for over three years, returning satellite rcvr control, and a bit of audio. I would guess that I am getting soemwhere around 10mBps (give or take). BUT, I have never stress tested it to see what it actually does in terms of bandwidth.

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