Starlink LAN

Gotta watch those Fresnel zones!
lewiscallaway
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:02 pm

Starlink LAN

Post by lewiscallaway » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:16 am

Has anyone used the LAN on the Moseley Starlink? I understand it is simplex, so what can you really do with it?

Could we use a barix on both ends of it if it is in RTP mode? We are trying to get two more channels of audio out to our transmitter.

Thanks!

djpcraze
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Starlink LAN

Post by djpcraze » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:10 pm

Going through a project with them right now actually using that function/port. I assume you're talking about 950mhz boxes... not T1 which are inherently bi-directional.

I can't speak to a Barix box, although I don't see why it wouldn't work with some form of UTP, but I CAN tell you if your StarLink is even just slightly aged (mine are circa 2004) they'll need whole new mux cards to use the lan... it was only made available a few years back for that which weren't T1 based.

The audio card is going to pull the bandwidth down quite a bit as well... if you're gonna do it... go all the way and go all IP.

I'm spending 10,000+ to upgrade these 2004 AES units to run that setup... so if it wasn't ordered from the factory don't expect it to work...

lewiscallaway
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:02 pm

Re: Starlink LAN

Post by lewiscallaway » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:38 pm

These are brand new units and are wireless.

Has anyone tried what we are trying to do?

Thanks

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Slab Bulkhead
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:34 pm

Re: Starlink LAN

Post by Slab Bulkhead » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:03 pm

Not here...we diplexed in some Ubiquiti 900 MHz radios for a 2-way data connection. RDS and remote control is all on that. The main audio is still on the Starlink.

lewiscallaway
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:02 pm

Re: Starlink LAN

Post by lewiscallaway » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:04 am

This is a site where we need more than the four audio feeds that we can get with a starlink.

How did you diplex in some Ubiquiti radios?

Thanks!

jammerdave
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 9:03 pm
Location: West Sacramento, CA

Re: Starlink LAN

Post by jammerdave » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:49 am

http://www.microwavefilter.com/18486.htm

quote=lewiscallaway post_id=38519 time=1488121448 user_id=4153]
This is a site where we need more than the four audio feeds that we can get with a starlink.

How did you diplex in some Ubiquiti radios?

Thanks!
[/quote]

djpcraze
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Starlink LAN

Post by djpcraze » Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:01 pm

I'm temporarily passing an AES feed over that exact scenario (900 on 950 dishes) on the same link I spoke of before... using Moseley Rincons... because I can repurpose them later once the Starlinks come back... that's Moseley's proper config for IP... but of course it's their product. 900mhz is not very stable... I can tell you that. Fine for a backup but not a primary STL.

Throughput is variable... 500kbps to 5mbits over 45 miles or so. Lots of jitter, latency, and packet loss as well. Depends on what channels I can use at the time. Fine for RDS and telemetry, which is all I needed it for long term. Sucks bad as a backup STL however... I wouldn't trust it at all for a primary. Hence my investment into Rincons over the 950.

Lee_Wheeler
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:53 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: Starlink LAN

Post by Lee_Wheeler » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:43 pm

I am fascinated by this as well. How did you go about getting the Ubiquiti radios to work without cross polarization? I thought the way Ubiquiti did duplex was to send and receive on the same frequency but on the other polarity (ie: TX-Horizontal, RX-Vertical).

I would love to buy some cheap Ubiquiti 900 MHz stuff to back up my 3.6 GHz radios for data.

...Lee

W2XJ
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:15 pm

Re: Starlink LAN

Post by W2XJ » Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:28 pm

You will get much better results for less cost and effort by going to a higher frequency. 5.8 gig unlicensed or if licensed, 6 or 11 gig. You can easily get 50 to 100 gig throughput. The unlicensed stuff is a few hundred dollars. There is no point in putting good money into 950 Meg gear.

djpcraze
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Starlink LAN

Post by djpcraze » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:07 pm

W2XJ wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:28 pm
You will get much better results for less cost and effort by going to a higher frequency. 5.8 gig unlicensed or if licensed, 6 or 11 gig. You can easily get 50 to 100 gig throughput. The unlicensed stuff is a few hundred dollars. There is no point in putting good money into 950 Meg gear.
True... and I use 5.8 for a few other links that it works well on. The problem here however is this is a BIG link that is literally, as mentioned above, 70-80 miles or so. I need the reliability that the 950 can provide over my existing 10 foot dishes at this point. Plus, I already hold the licences, have 90% of the equipment, and I own my hop site.
Lee_Wheeler wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:43 pm
I am fascinated by this as well. How did you go about getting the Ubiquiti radios to work without cross polarization? I thought the way Ubiquiti did duplex was to send and receive on the same frequency but on the other polarity (ie: TX-Horizontal, RX-Vertical).

I would love to buy some cheap Ubiquiti 900 MHz stuff to back up my 3.6 GHz radios for data.

...Lee
I'm using NanoStation Loco M9 radios into the above mentioned Microwave Filter Company combiners. They're not designed for MIMO, and only have a single external connector, unlike how some of the more expensive Ubiquiti models do. I'm pretty sure it can be disabled even if the radio supports it however, just by selecting if you want connector one, two, or both.

I think you may be thinking of something different all together however, like the all-in-one types of units which very well could utilize a setup like you describe. The polarity of the signal is going to be determined by the design of the antenna and not the radio itself.

djpcraze
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Starlink LAN

Post by djpcraze » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:08 am

Here is a link to photos of one of my 5.8 links after first installation...

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30059 ... ajor-metro

Site has changed quite a bit since then (including a few cable ties... lol) but the 5-5.8ghz link remains stable. About 50 megabits each direction.

I stick with OP... I'd like to know if there is anyone using anything over Mux cards in Starlinks...

Sorry to derail your thread Lewis... if the mods feel this should be moved they by all means can. I'm just throwing the info out there for anyone that stumbles on the thread in the future.

lewiscallaway
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:02 pm

Re: Starlink LAN

Post by lewiscallaway » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:16 pm

No worries! I like hearing about other Ubiquiti installs!

jammerdave
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 9:03 pm
Location: West Sacramento, CA

Re: Starlink LAN

Post by jammerdave » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:51 am

Just ordered a pair of these for use with the diplexer over an existing 950 path. I'll try and remember to report back on the results.
Path also includes an isocoupler at the far end (AM site))

https://routerboard.com/RBMetal9HPn

df
djpcraze wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:07 pm
W2XJ wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:28 pm
You will get much better results for less cost and effort by going to a higher frequency. 5.8 gig unlicensed or if licensed, 6 or 11 gig. You can easily get 50 to 100 gig throughput. The unlicensed stuff is a few hundred dollars. There is no point in putting good money into 950 Meg gear.
True... and I use 5.8 for a few other links that it works well on. The problem here however is this is a BIG link that is literally, as mentioned above, 70-80 miles or so. I need the reliability that the 950 can provide over my existing 10 foot dishes at this point. Plus, I already hold the licences, have 90% of the equipment, and I own my hop site.
Lee_Wheeler wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:43 pm
I am fascinated by this as well. How did you go about getting the Ubiquiti radios to work without cross polarization? I thought the way Ubiquiti did duplex was to send and receive on the same frequency but on the other polarity (ie: TX-Horizontal, RX-Vertical).

I would love to buy some cheap Ubiquiti 900 MHz stuff to back up my 3.6 GHz radios for data.

...Lee
I'm using NanoStation Loco M9 radios into the above mentioned Microwave Filter Company combiners. They're not designed for MIMO, and only have a single external connector, unlike how some of the more expensive Ubiquiti models do. I'm pretty sure it can be disabled even if the radio supports it however, just by selecting if you want connector one, two, or both.

I think you may be thinking of something different all together however, like the all-in-one types of units which very well could utilize a setup like you describe. The polarity of the signal is going to be determined by the design of the antenna and not the radio itself.

W2XJ
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:15 pm

Re: Starlink LAN

Post by W2XJ » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:20 pm

I don't see any point in putting good serious money in 900/950 anything. Yesterday's marginal technology.

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kkiddkkidd
Posts: 445
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:13 am
Location: Lawrenceburg, TN

Re: Starlink LAN

Post by kkiddkkidd » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:27 pm

Lee_Wheeler wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:43 pm
I am fascinated by this as well. How did you go about getting the Ubiquiti radios to work without cross polarization? I thought the way Ubiquiti did duplex was to send and receive on the same frequency but on the other polarity (ie: TX-Horizontal, RX-Vertical).
The Bullets and AirGrids (and probably others) are single polarity / half duplex. The dual-pol will work single polarity but at a reduced band width. They use normal WIFI topology except for the high speed AirMax and AC products.

Later,
--
Kevin C. Kidd CSRE/AMD
WD4RAT
AM Ground Systems Company
http://www.amgroundsystems.com
KK Broadcast Engineering
http://www.kkbc.com

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