Receive antenna height for translator

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Shane
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Re: Receive antenna height for translator

Post by Shane » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:29 pm

But which model?
XDR-F1HD. Not in production but probably available used.
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Re: Receive antenna height for translator

Post by musiconradio.com » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:52 pm

PaulBWalkerJr wrote:W263CF 100.5 Meridian, MS picking up WLYB 96.3 Livingston, AL

I hear that translator gets out real well for 10 watts, about as well as a translator running 75 watts on the same tower
869 Feet above sea level. Line of sight (all transmitters on a hill above the city). Yes a good environment for FM transmission. Even the 100k stations can be heard in Mobile AL sometimes.

The 75 watter is located further South but is on higher ground and a taller tower. I hear can pick it up sometimes as far as 25 miles away.

The XDR-F1HD is the receiver used. It works well in high RF environments. There is a translator on 100.9 and it wiped out every other receiver. Had a heck of a time getting on (ebay) because they are desired. Just make sure it is plugged into a UPS or you will lose the settings.

We will try bringing the SAMCO we have inside and shielding the backside and see what happens.

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Re: Receive antenna height for translator

Post by TPT » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:16 am

Yes, same model I used. The translator was co-located with a Class A I own, and there are two other Class A stations 350 feet west of us--all at around 200' AG. I say "was" located because Alpha Media made us an offer we couldn't refuse & the license went 175 miles to the south.

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Re: Receive antenna height for translator

Post by w9wi » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:06 am

Let me add to the list of those using a XDR-F1HD on the input side of a translator...

The primary is a LPFM which, due to rather high HAAT, is running an entire six watts. I don't know what all other receivers have been tried but there have been several. The Sony does the job. As musiconradio says, you need a UPS because if the power fails, it won't come back up on its own -- and when you hit the switch it will want to translate AM 530:(

I have one of these at home too. Hooked to a rather low Yagi. (while standing on the ground I can grab the reflector) It receives fully intelligible - albeit rather noisy - signal from a 100-watt LPFM 25 miles away.
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Re: Receive antenna height for translator

Post by W2XJ » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:06 am

I own several of the alegidly esteemed Sony's but I would never use one in a professional broadcast application. My question was which model Inovonics was rejected?

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Re: Receive antenna height for translator

Post by TPT » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:18 pm

Well it's now residing in a rack at the station, & I'm at home, but I believe it is the 631 (with the LCD display).

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Re: Receive antenna height for translator

Post by TPT » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:22 pm

While my brain is still functioning (just got back from a two day round trip--Ohio to western N.C.)--we fed the Sony into a Henry Match Box, then balanced into the left and right input of a Nautel VS300 (which has a built in stereo generator). The Nautel provided 200 watts for the 70 watt translator.

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Re: Receive antenna height for translator

Post by W2XJ » Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:18 am

631 is a casual receiver. You need a 640 or 650. Sloppy engineering.

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Re: Receive antenna height for translator

Post by TPT » Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:45 am

Those are newer models--the 631 was what was available at the time.

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Re: Receive antenna height for translator

Post by Shane » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:29 pm

W2XJ wrote:631 is a casual receiver. You need a 640 or 650. Sloppy engineering.
Uh, can we be polite? I'm not a moderator here but I have to believe you are skating on thin ice. I, for one, would hate to lose your perspective and experience. That may be the only reason you haven't heard from a moderator yet.
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Re: Receive antenna height for translator

Post by BroadcastDoc » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:40 pm

Shane wrote:
W2XJ wrote:631 is a casual receiver. You need a 640 or 650. Sloppy engineering.
Uh, can we be polite? I'm not a moderator here but I have to believe you are skating on thin ice. I, for one, would hate to lose your perspective and experience. That may be the only reason you haven't heard from a moderator yet.
I agree. We can share opinions without being judgmental. We all have to make due with what we have sometimes, for whatever reason.
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Re: Receive antenna height for translator

Post by musiconradio.com » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:24 pm

W2XJ wrote:I own several of the alegidly esteemed Sony's but I would never use one in a professional broadcast application. My question was which model Inovonics was rejected?
It not the issue of a broadcast application. It is about what works. Nothing else did in this extremely high RF enviroment. In some cases consumer products have caught up or exceeded broadcast (or audiophile) equipment, and is much more affordable.

In the case of the XDR-F1HD it was recommended by those with extensive RF experience. Many of you have helped me with RF issues on this board, and is appreciated.

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Re: Receive antenna height for translator

Post by W2XJ » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:24 pm

Well let me just point out. I have had a project I was associated with over 45 years ago and not totally under my control come back to haunt me as recently as last year. The favor you do for some cheapskate owner today may be a black mark on your resume forever. I only do best practices. You'll never find a matchbox or any other kind of short cuts in my projects. If a client doesn't have money, they're not a client.

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Re: Receive antenna height for translator

Post by TPT » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:48 am

Now from the management viewpoint. The translator was originally 50 watts--put perched on a bluff overlooking a shadowed part of the river valley.
Minus AHAAT in several directions, used to relay a suburban station I own. Inovonics 631, BEXT exciter & Henry amplifier

Then I bought an in-market Class A, operating from a leased site. Very poorly maintained tower, tower owner has their single bay at top, our 2 bay below. Two years later land right beside this tower came up for sale, we grabbed it, since our station had only a narrow open area for site moves. $10K to upgrade the building on site (a 25X60 commercial garage, well worth the investment in HVAC & sealing up what would become the transmitter room).

Then $46K to build new 190' tower, including new feedline, antenna since the tower crew wouldn't climb the other tower to retrieve antennas. Not long after, the old tower was bought by Vertical Bridge, who would have most likely increased our rent substantially had we stayed in place. Electric & mortgage now about equals our old rent--but we are building equity. Oh, and Vertical Bridge moved another Class A on their tower--making 3 class A's within 350' of each other (plus two others within a 1/4 mile).

Back to the translator. With this site we could increase the AHAAT on the translator so we installed a single bay half-way up the new tower. Bought a VS300 (which, of course, could be used in a variety of ways). When we found the problem with the Inovonics 631, the Sony and matchbox proved a practical solution. Using the internal stereo geni in the VS300 we had an acceptable --not perfect--translator signal.

The rest of the story? Sold the license for the translator last spring for $35K.

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Re: Receive antenna height for translator

Post by W2XJ » Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:15 pm

VS300 is an excellent value when you take advantage of the built in features and still a great TX when you don't.

BTW I have a Sony I could be convinced to sell for too much money.

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