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HD Translator IDs

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:37 pm
by NECRAT
OK here is something to ponder.

What do translators running HD put for their HD ID's, IF they are running the HD-2 or HD-3 of the primary station...

I'll give an example of what I am asking.

Lets say you have a primary station, WNYC-HD, and you are going to simulcast WNYC-HD3 on a translator, W299AK. And the translator, W299AK is running an HD stream, what do you put as the identifier? WNYC? NYC3? (So that it shows up as WNYC-FM or NYC3-FM on the HD radio receiving it?)

Re: HD Translator IDs

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:29 pm
by BroadcastDoc
There are two fields for station info with PAD...Station "slogan" and station call sign. I would imagine that you'd put the translator ID in the call sign field, and the originating call sign (or whatever you'd want to "brand" the station as) in the "slogan" field.

So in this case you could see this on the display:

W299AK
NYC3-FM New York
Title/Artist/Album

Now, having said that, I don't think that its' a "legal" issue as much as a standards one. The above would conform with the standard, but as far as I know there are really no rules yet pertaining to IBOC ID (other than aurally) so you could probably legally do it however you wanted.

Re: HD Translator IDs

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:35 pm
by Deep Thought
The translator still has to be identified by its callsign either aurally by the originating station, by an aural insert locally (voice or Morse code) or by FSK locally no matter what the source station (AM, FM "SD or HD"). IBOC ID doesn't really enter into that since it's just a marketing thing...the FCC requires the normal analog old-school ID regardless.

Re: HD Translator IDs

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:37 pm
by BroadcastDoc
Yeah, that's what I meant (though I didn't really explain it clearly). :D

Re: HD Translator IDs

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:55 pm
by NECRAT
Deep Thought wrote: IBOC ID doesn't really enter into that since it's just a marketing thing...
Yeah I understand, I was more inclined to see what people put in the PAD field for the station ID.

On my JVC KDR-HD1, there are only 7 total charecter spaces, so the translator would probably auto-truncate and show up as
W299-FM or 99AK-FM.

Re: HD Translator IDs

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:41 pm
by BroadcastDoc
Actually the -FM is added at the Exporter. It's not a default of the radio. I could make it say pretty much anything... :)

Re: HD Translator IDs

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:03 pm
by eadler
Can't you put any 8 characters just like you can with RDS? "W2##XX "

Speaking of PAD data, what are you all using for PAD data generation (either static or dynamic)?

Re: HD Translator IDs

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:05 pm
by BroadcastDoc
I'm using TRE for PAD and RDS.

Re: HD Translator IDs

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:49 pm
by NECRAT
BroadcastDoc wrote:Actually the -FM is added at the Exporter. It's not a default of the radio. I could make it say pretty much anything... :)
Even the JVC? A station near here for a while just had "HD" for its ID., so on my Sony it showed up as "HD". But the JVC still showed it as "HD -FM".

Re: HD Translator IDs

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:57 pm
by BroadcastDoc
Yep.

By default, the HD exporter is set to automatically append "-FM" or "-AM" to the call sign. You need to uncheck it to eliminate it. In fact, the new version of the exporter software has "HD" as the default call sign and "-FM" automatically appended.

So that's the scoop with your JVC - the station was sending out "HD-FM" as their call sign! :)

Re: HD Translator IDs

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:24 am
by Kelly
Doc your comments peaked my curiosity from a different angle. Most of the FM translators I've worked with over the years wouldn't be able to receive the IBOC/HD subcarriers, let alone pass them to transmit in a usable form. Heck even though a typical translator was supposed to with a usual IF conversion, most of my translators wouldn't even pass a 93kHz aural sub=channel, let alone data carriers.

I'm sure that translators are better now, but are FM stations which converted to HD/IBOC actually replacing the old translators to so they will pass HD/IBOC?

Re: HD Translator IDs

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:26 am
by BroadcastDoc
I wouldn't say a lot are, but the technology is out there:

http://www.larcan.com/Broadcast_Solutio ... ctid=56406

I think we may see a more of these as stations look for ways to fill coverage holes with their HD/HD2 programming.

Re: HD Translator IDs

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:45 pm
by NECRAT
Also Armstrong and Crown touted HD translators which were open enough to carry the whole package.
The Crown product (The LA series, if memory serves me correctly) is no longer listed on their website.
I haven't checked Armstrong's , but it was definatley something a few were offering at one time.