Women Hearing Distorsion on Station After STL realign

Gotta watch those Fresnel zones!
abwdvm
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Women Hearing Distorsion on Station After STL realign

Post by abwdvm » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:58 am

Recently Moved an STL link, and aligned STL antennas.
STL Reciever.jpg
Reads 26dBuV at the receiver.

STL Tx with Orban 2200
STL Tx.jpg
Would love any input...
technician at an 1000w AM station in Texas

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kkiddkkidd
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Re: Women Hearing Distorsion on Station After STL realign

Post by kkiddkkidd » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:37 pm

What do you hear?

As was noted in the other thread, 26dBuV is very low. I would not be surprised if the signal is noisy... What does it sound like with nothing playing?

I'm not sure what is considered to be minimum full quieting signal level but I have 3 or 4 of these on paths from 4 miles to about 12 and they are all between 35dBuV and almost 60dBuV.

Good luck,
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Re: Women Hearing Distorsion on Station After STL realign

Post by abwdvm » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:55 pm

I can hear some 60hrz when there is nothing playing, when I have it cranked in my car. At low to moderate levels in my car it sound perfect to my ears. Also sounds fine before the ORBAN 200, and before the NICOM STL Tx.

I really think we need to have the crew come back out, climb the tower, and shoot for higher readings.

BTW the Arbitron encoding units have an LED illuminated indicating low signal (ie they are not doing their job due to poor signal quality)
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Slab Bulkhead
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Re: Women Hearing Distorsion on Station After STL realign

Post by Slab Bulkhead » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:02 pm

That does seem very low. If I am remembering correctly, the manual says it wants to see 40 dBuV for good mono performance, and 50 dBuV for stereo.

The LPFM I take care of used to run one of those, and I think we usually saw > 60 on it, but it was for a path of just under 2.5 miles.

I assume you've tuned the receive filter (if that version has it). We had the older 2U size receiver and it had a filter with a set of slugs that you had to adjust by hand to peak the received signal.

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Re: Women Hearing Distorsion on Station After STL realign

Post by RodeoJack » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:29 am

The only Nicom I had got 41 dBuV on a 26 mile path with PR-950s. We got full quieting with stereo, but as I recall, we didn't have a lot of overhead. Drop the transmitter down much and the noise level would become audible. Sorry... don't know what that number was for us, but our "good" number seems to match up with what others here believe.

That you're getting so much less signal at half the distance would suggest there's still something wrong with your installation. A receiver problem, a coax problem, an antenna problem or a lingering alignment issue could all result in the readings you're seeing.

What kind of antenna are you using?

Did you or your predecessor ever log the reading you were getting before you attempted the realignment? If so, what was it?

That you're hearing complaints from women first isn't a surprise. Research about that goes back, at least, to the Schulke SRP Beautiful Music days and, to some extent, drove the technical requirements the company imposed on its subscriber stations.

At this point, the hum you're hearing is probably a different problem... which could be coming from anywhere. Fix the receive issue first.

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Re: Women Hearing Distorsion on Station After STL realign

Post by grich » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:58 am

And as I alluded to in the other thread, make sure the transmit and receive antennas are aligned to the same polarity, or that's going to knock down your signal 20-25dB even with everything else perfect.

And peak BOTH dishes.

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Re: Women Hearing Distorsion on Station After STL realign

Post by kkiddkkidd » Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:39 pm

RodeoJack wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:29 am

That you're hearing complaints from women first isn't a surprise. Research about that goes back, at least, to the Schulke SRP Beautiful Music days and, to some extent, drove the technical requirements the company imposed on its subscriber stations.
Most women are very sensitive to (and intolerant of) high freq distortion and noise. My wife is as non-tech as they come but over the years has learned what a good radio station sounds like. I have a pretty good ear but more than once, she has called my attention to an audio problem. She didn't know why she didn't like the sound, but that it made her want to turn the volume down even though it wasn't very loud to start with. She has absolutely no patience with even slightly noisy signals while I will listen to good programming until I have to start guessing at what is going on...

Regards,
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Re: Women Hearing Distorsion on Station After STL realign

Post by Dale H. Cook » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:12 am

RodeoJack wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:29 am
That you're hearing complaints from women first isn't a surprise. Research about that goes back, at least, to the Schulke SRP Beautiful Music days ...
Some research goes back much farther than that. Women can hear the higher frequency distortion products better than men because women of all ages have better high-frequency hearing than men. That has long been known. For one major study demonstrating that, and demonstrating that the high frequency hearing of men decreases more significantly than that of women with advancing age, see Steinberg, Montgomery and Gardner, "Results of the World's Fair Hearing Tests," Bell System Technical Journal, 19 (1940):533-562. That volume of BJST is available online.
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Re: Women Hearing Distorsion on Station After STL realign

Post by RGORJANCE » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:39 am

Could the loss of hearing in men be the result of constant nagging, or is it "selective hearing loss", which is what I have? :roll:

Fossil

PS Yes, women definitely have superior hearing in the higher frequencies. Heard a station in Wisconsin lost most of their female audience to over processing and screech back in the "loudness wars". The PD didn't have a clue!

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Re: Women Hearing Distorsion on Station After STL realign

Post by kb4mdz » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:43 am

Not surprising at all. I'm 59, and I have a 27 year old daughter who helps me with sound at church. She can hear the system 'ringing' and threatening to go into full feedback howl, much earlier than I can. I try not to let my ego get the best of me about it. :D

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Re: Women Hearing Distorsion on Station After STL realign

Post by Dale H. Cook » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:44 am

RGORJANCE wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:39 am
Could the loss of hearing in men be the result of constant nagging, or is it "selective hearing loss", which is what I have?
Fossil -

It's just that men turn into old farts faster than women do.
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Re: Women Hearing Distorsion on Station After STL realign

Post by Dale H. Cook » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:50 am

kb4mdz wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:43 am
She can hear the system 'ringing' ...
At one station where I worked the ceiling lights in the reception area were flood bulbs in ceiling cans. Sometimes when a bulb was dying the filament would vibrate causing a high-pitched ringing sound. Most of the women on the staff worked in the offices, and could hear that and found it objectionable. Most of the men on the staff were DJs, frequently with hearing damaged by overly loud headphones, and could not hear the ringing. I could because, as a radio CE, I have zealously guarded my hearing against damage for decades, even to the point of wearing earplugs at arena concerts.
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Shane
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Re: Women Hearing Distorsion on Station After STL realign

Post by Shane » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:00 pm

I used to be able to hear incandescent bulb filaments fixing to fail with that high pitch sound; any incandescent, not just floods. (Shoot, I used to be able to hear the 19 kHz pilot on stereo FMs tuned in on a mono hi-fi tuner! When I was a teenager that is.) Haven’t heard that sound in a while. I’m sure it’s not because it isn’t there unless it could be that all the bulbs have been changed to CFLs and LEDs!

On the analytical side, though by no means scientific, I ran an Adobe Audition frequency sweep and determined that I’m no longer hearing above 12,000 Hz. So now I know why I can’t hear the horizontal sweep oscillator when entering a room with a CRT running anymore. Or is that because nobody uses CRTs anymore? Probably not.
Mike Shane, CBRE
---Omaha---

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Dale H. Cook
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Re: Women Hearing Distorsion on Station After STL realign

Post by Dale H. Cook » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:32 pm

I haven't checked my hearing in many years, but up until a few years before my last analog TV with a CRT died I could still hear the flyback ringing. For you young folks, a CRT is an antiquated display technology that, if used in an iPhone, would result in a phone you would have to carry in a wheelbarrow.
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Re: Women Hearing Distorsion on Station After STL realign

Post by kcbooboo » Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:13 am

Imagine if iPhones had CRTs. People wouldn't be able to text and drive, text and walk, or text while doing anything else. What a world! Battery life would be specified in minutes. No more cracked faceplates from putting the phone into your back pocket and sitting down.

Bob M.

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