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Re: Translators

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:37 am
by w9wi
Which recalls memories of an event that demonstrates the follies of these things...

Driving through Meridian, Mississippi & listening to NPR. The program ends & I start tuning looking for something else to listen to. I stop tuning when I hear the 1050Hz EAS alert tone. Weather looks clear, but Meridian is along the edge of a ridge, and something might be happening on the other side. The alert tone ends, and the announcement begins:

"The National Weather Service has issued a Severe Thunderstorm Warning for...

... Marin and Sonoma Counties in Northern California."

It was a satellator for KEAR San Francisco.

Of course, if there actually had been a tornado on the other side of that ridge... I wouldn't have heard about it. Because this satellator wasn't listening to any of Meridian's EAS LPs.

Re: Translators

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:20 pm
by knoxbob
If an AM stations has a translator that is rebroadcasting it's signal within it coverage area can they have another translator just outside the coverage area with it rebroadcasting from the 1st translator? If that makes sense?

Re: Translators

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:04 pm
by Shane
I don't think so or somebody would be doing it.

Re: Translators

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:19 am
by w9wi
knoxbob wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:20 pm
If an AM stations has a translator that is rebroadcasting it's signal within it coverage area can they have another translator just outside the coverage area with it rebroadcasting from the 1st translator? If that makes sense?
Given that it's too early in my day, I'm probably going to get this wrong but...

Looking at Deep's post from last October, it appears to me this is legal *if* the second translator is *not* owned or supported by the AM station. In general, a translator of a commercial station cannot extend the predicted coverage of the station unless it's independently owned.

That "if" is probably why it hasn't happened.

Re: Translators

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:23 am
by TPT
Translator in my area owned by small church carrying programming of an AM station owned by a bigger church. Coverage area of the translator half in/half out of the "official" 2 mv/m--AM station on slant wire at the moment.

Re: Translators

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:53 am
by Deep Thought
I posed the specific question to Jim Bradshaw at the FCC and got this answer:
Jim,

I was asked an FM translator question I can’t find an answer for: Can an independently-owned FM translator with no connection to the primary station retransmit the signal of an AM fill-in translator?

Thanks for any insight you can provide.

- Mark Mueller
Mueller Broadcast Design


Yes – as long as they have permission to rebroadcast the AM.
Jim
Key words here: "independently owned". The same rules apply as they would with an FM fill-in translator being rebroadcast.

Re: Translators

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:56 pm
by knoxbob
Thanks to all, for your answers.

Re: Translators

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:11 pm
by grich
And today comes a slight rule tweak:

http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Release ... 3304A1.pdf

Re: Translators

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:16 pm
by Deep Thought
Changed from "and" to "or".

(g) * * * The coverage contour of an FM translator rebroadcasting an AM radio broadcast station
as its primary station must be contained within the greater of either the 2 mV/m daytime contour
of the AM station or a 25-mile (40 km) radius centered at the AM transmitter site. The protected
contour for an FM translator station is its predicted 1 mV/m contour.

Re: Translators

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:49 pm
by TPT
Will help stations with deep nulls in their daytime pattern. Also makes most of this discussion moot--except that the upcoming window will be one translator to station. But doesn't preclude buying an existing translator to have a second signal, where that translator is now outside the Am station's daytime contour (but inside the 25 mile circle).

Re: Translators

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:13 pm
by NECRAT


Key words here: "independently owned". The same rules apply as they would with an FM fill-in translator being rebroadcast.
I believe W300AC, soon to be 94.9 in Providence RI fits this category.

Re: Translators

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:40 am
by bill981
TPT's response now makes me wonder if the translator has to fit in the 2 mV/m in the deepest null. Or does the 25-mile rule ignore the AM DA?

Re: Translators

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:34 pm
by Deep Thought
The rule now is 60 dBu within the 2 mV/m -or- a 25 mile radius circle, whichever is larger.

Re: Translators

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:26 pm
by Shane
And this is new. It used to be whichever is smaller, which did indeed affect placement for some directional AMs. After Tom Wheeler left, reason prevailed and the rule was quickly changed.

Re: Translators

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:28 pm
by Deep Thought
It was proposed in comments to the Further Proposed Rulemaking. The only bit they didn't do is the 40 mile extension since it is redundant.