RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

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Deep Thought
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RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by Deep Thought » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:11 am

I've been asked by a radio client to help them with registration of their (many) C-band satellite receive dishes in light of the potential "sharing" (yeah, right) of the band with terrestrial land mobile users. As usual the FCC has made what should be a simple process impossible for mere mortals to understand and equally costly. The same people who have made setting up a simple STL an onerous ordeal seem to have camped on RX frequency coordination at outrageous fees.

Given the one-size-fits-nobody methods of the Wireless bureau, I've decided I don't need the aggravation. However, the client still needs to do something.

Any recommendations of competent, non-gouging resources are welcome.
Mark Mueller • Mueller Broadcast Design • La Grange, IL • http://www.muellerbroadcastdesign.com

grich
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by grich » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:44 am

One of my clients was quoted $405 by Comsearch to prepare and file the form, in addition to the $695 coordination fee. I doubt that $405 includes the $395 FCC filing fee.

We did the coordination through Comsearch, but the business manager and I ganged up to file the FCC form. Blech.

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Deep Thought
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by Deep Thought » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:20 pm

Thanks. That's what I was wondering about. My client was quoted $1595 to file *one* RX dish registration by a name everyone here would recognize.
Mark Mueller • Mueller Broadcast Design • La Grange, IL • http://www.muellerbroadcastdesign.com

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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by kkiddkkidd » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:11 pm

Yesterday I got quotes for anywhere from $1350 to $1650 including the filing fee...

There has been a fairly spirited discussion on the BC reflector since I brought up the interview in RW where Commissioner O'Rielly reiterated that the sharing proposal will likely proceed.

I have started a discussion with O'Rielly's press rep and will be presenting a list of questions in prep of an article for The BDR in a few days.

They are still maintaining that there are only 1500 C-band downlinks based on the number of registrations. I am contending that it is more like 15,000 considering half of 15k AM & FM stations have a dish, practically all of almost 5000 TV stations have at least one (if not several), a fair number of personal TVRO and probably a few thousand multi-dish cable head ends.

Not to mention EAS distribution via state networks, etc.

Later,
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Kevin C. Kidd CSRE/AMD
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Deep Thought
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by Deep Thought » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:29 pm

kkiddkkidd wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:11 pm
I am contending that it is more like 15,000
And don't forget a whole bunch of NCE-FM reserved band translators fed via these things.
Mark Mueller • Mueller Broadcast Design • La Grange, IL • http://www.muellerbroadcastdesign.com

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kkiddkkidd
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by kkiddkkidd » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:06 pm

Deep Thought wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:29 pm
kkiddkkidd wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:11 pm
I am contending that it is more like 15,000
And don't forget a whole bunch of NCE-FM reserved band translators fed via these things.
I will add that to my questions / comments...
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kkiddkkidd
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by kkiddkkidd » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:08 pm

If anyone has any polite questions to ask Commissioner O'Rielly's press attache... Please let me know. I will be talking to her Friday.
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Kevin C. Kidd CSRE/AMD
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Shane
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by Shane » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:26 pm

I don’t know if it would make a hill of beans of difference but perhaps a reminder of how in the not-too-distant past a commissioner whipped out the ARRL Repeater Directory to “discover” there was no operation below 222 MHz so surely we wouldn’t miss the spectrum, might be worth pointing out. This is similar but worse.

Of course, as we all here know, simplex operations and backhauls for repeaters on other bands would not be listed in any “Repeater” directory.
Mike Shane, CBRE
---Omaha---

spareparts
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by spareparts » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:38 pm

So how do the non-profits that operate C band systems (NASA TV as an example) make their voices heard without diverting funding from other projects?

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kkiddkkidd
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by kkiddkkidd » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:07 am

Shane wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:26 pm
I don’t know if it would make a hill of beans of difference but perhaps a reminder of how in the not-too-distant past a commissioner whipped out the ARRL Repeater Directory to “discover” there was no operation below 222 MHz so surely we wouldn’t miss the spectrum, might be worth pointing out. This is similar but worse.

Of course, as we all here know, simplex operations and backhauls for repeaters on other bands would not be listed in any “Repeater” directory.
I recall that happening but don't recall the exact situation or circumstances. Do you remember when it was, what it was and which commissioner it was?

Thanks,
--
Kevin C. Kidd CSRE/AMD
WD4RAT
AM Ground Systems Company
http://www.amgroundsystems.com
KK Broadcast Engineering
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kkiddkkidd
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by kkiddkkidd » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:11 am

spareparts wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:38 pm
So how do the non-profits that operate C band systems (NASA TV as an example) make their voices heard without diverting funding from other projects?
Or even the small town mom & pop stations... Do we use $1600 to register our dish or pay the electric bill for a few months...
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Kevin C. Kidd CSRE/AMD
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by TPT » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:45 pm

Or the @#$%^ regulatory "fee"?

I calculated that I pay 4 times per 12+ resident (Arbitron 12+ pop. figures) in my small market (#249) what KDKA pays per 12+ resident in the Pittsburgh market. KD gets considerably better rates than I do.

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Shane
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by Shane » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:21 am

I recall that happening but don't recall the exact situation or circumstances. Do you remember when it was, what it was and which commissioner it was?
I’d have to research the name(s). I recall it was a male commissioner who used the Repeater directory, that UPS was the intended beneficiary to be awarded something like 216-222 MHz for a dispatch system they never built, (hams lost 220-222 MHz in that deal,) and a female commissioner who just happened to be a former UPS executive who cast the deciding vote.
Mike Shane, CBRE
---Omaha---

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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by kkiddkkidd » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:04 am

Does anyone remember exactly what frequencies the old ATT long lines systems operated on? In the sat downlink spectrum or adjacent?

I am writing an article and have sent an extensive list of pointed questions to the FCC press atache but was trying to remember the above.

Later,
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Kevin C. Kidd CSRE/AMD
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ncradioeng
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by ncradioeng » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:03 am

3.7 - 4.2 GHz. I think most of the AT&T land-based microwave channel and modulation specs carried over to the satellite transponder specs. It was all about making phones calls back then.

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