RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

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KC9AIC
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by KC9AIC » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:04 pm

The LNB is located behind the dish, so it's either Cassegrain or Gregorian feed.

grich
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by grich » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:56 pm

Classic Harris Delta Gain dish. I may have placed a manual for one in the recycle pile last week...might be recoverable if you need it.

They aren't 2-degree compliant, so I was told. One of my clients still uses one for EWTN on Galaxy 19. We registered it last year (with a PCN).

Another client demo'ed one last year as part of the AMC18 move.

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Dale H. Cook
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by Dale H. Cook » Tue May 01, 2018 7:43 am

kkiddkkidd wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:58 pm
Possibly not even 2 degree compliant.
Certainly not 2 degree compliant. It appears to be a former AP dish ca. 1980-81. It is a Harris, possibly provided under contract to Scientific Atlanata who, IIRC, made the receivers for the AP dishes. Although I installed them when I was an AP field tech I don't remember the model, as that was the better part of 40 years ago.
kkiddkkidd wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:58 pm
Is the LNB mounted on the back of the dish instead of out in front as normal?
They were originally installed with an LNA connected to a block downconverter slung under the dish. The LNA (probably long since replaced by an LNB) was indeed at the back of the dish because that is where the focal point is on a Cassegrain antenna. I think it is a Cassegrain as all the similar Harris antennas that I can recall used a convex secondary reflector.
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by TPT » Wed May 02, 2018 2:36 pm

Look at the Monday daily digest--has notice regarding this matter. Comments due May 31. Here's what my state association got from the NAB on this issue:

We completely understand the frustration and the importance of the C-band for content distribution. The unfortunate reality is that some amount of reallocation of the C-band for fixed or mobile use is inevitable. The reason is that we are not the licensees of this spectrum – we’re the customers of the satellite companies who actually hold the licenses to operate here. Two big satellite companies, SES and Intelsat, have told the FCC they are willing to give up 100 MHz of C-band spectrum (out of 500 MHz in the C-band). That almost certainly means at least 100 MHz is going to be reallocated. It’s a bit like if you’re renting a house and the owner decides she wants to sell the house when your lease is up; no matter how much you like the house, you still may have to move.

Our focus at this point is ensuring that the FCC fully understands the amount of incumbent use of the band and, most importantly, that we get as much protection as possible. SES and Intelsat have emphasized that, in their view, they can continue to serve their customers with 100 MHz less spectrum, and that they want to make sure their customers are as protected as possible. In the public notice the FCC released announcing this current 90-day filing window, the FCC plainly stated that it might end up taking into consideration only registered earth stations in providing accommodations or protections if it reallocates part of the C-band. Accordingly, we are urging people to register every earth station, even if a group down the street registers. We definitely understand that the filing fee is significant, but it is at least a reduction from the $1500 or so that would ordinarily be required if the FCC did not waive the coordination requirement. While we don’t know how the FCC proceeding will play out, we are concerned that the risk of not registering would be that, for example, the FCC might require wireless operators to provide filters or other technical fixes – and only registered earth stations would be eligible to get those fixes. I hope that helps explain why we are urging users to register all of their earth stations.

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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by grich » Thu May 03, 2018 10:19 am

grich wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:56 pm
Classic Harris Delta Gain dish. I may have placed a manual for one in the recycle pile last week...might be recoverable if you need it.

They aren't 2-degree compliant, so I was told. One of my clients still uses one for EWTN on Galaxy 19. We registered it last year (with a PCN).

Another client demo'ed one last year as part of the AMC18 move.
I had to play with this dish this morning. Silence alarms at 6:07am. No network audio.

I've seen a dozen of these dishes and never had seen anyone try to secure the hole in the back. Birds tend to nest there, which may or may not be better than wasps. Looks like a small mammal went snacking in the bird nest and tore the coax out of the hex-crimp connector on the LNB. There was darn-near a bale's worth of straw at the base of the dish. I reinstalled the coax with a nice compression fitting, then quickly secured the hole with remnants of a mesh dish. Didn't have time to make it pretty, but it will do.
dish.jpg

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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by grich » Thu May 03, 2018 10:24 am

I used the online form 312 last night for another client. It's not exactly the same as the PDF form, but with the provided samples, I slugged my way through it. I left it saved in the workspace for review by the attorney and online fee filing. I've filled out worse.

Here's something you might want to check. In Karen Johnson's article - https://www.thebdr.net/articles/ops/ops/C-Bandinfo.pdf, she states the FCC will use Google Earth to spot-check for the existence of the dish being registered. This will be an issue for the client I'm working on now, because GE is not updated to show an overhead view of the new studio building (and dish) built in 2016. You might want to check GE to see if your dish is visible.

The dish I'm working on is visible in Street View, so I'm planning on mentioning that in the application. If necessary, I can submit aerial data from the county's GIS web site.

ncradioeng
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by ncradioeng » Wed May 09, 2018 11:50 am

Looks like people are registering - from the Daily Digest 9 May 18 :

https://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releas ... 0627A1.pdf

Scott.Cason
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by Scott.Cason » Thu May 17, 2018 9:06 am

This is horse $h*t. And where is the NAB on helping smaller broadcasts that do not have this in their budgets? Sure as hell not advocating for us I can tell you that. As far as the NAB is concerned, if it doesn't bother Clear Channel, it don't bother them.

I've got my FCC attorney working on filing a waiver on the filing fee for me.
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by Scott.Cason » Thu May 17, 2018 9:08 am

grich wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 10:24 am
the FCC will use Google Earth to spot-check for the existence of the dish being registered. This will be an issue for the client I'm working on now, because GE is not updated to show an overhead view of the new studio building (and dish) built in 2016. You might want to check GE to see if your dish is visible.
And if your studios have been moved, or a new dish installed, since the last GE update....?
LaGrange Communications - http://www.lagrange-com.com
Froggy 95.9 - http://froggy959.net/

grich
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by grich » Thu May 17, 2018 9:48 am

Scott.Cason wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 9:08 am
grich wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 10:24 am
the FCC will use Google Earth to spot-check for the existence of the dish being registered. This will be an issue for the client I'm working on now, because GE is not updated to show an overhead view of the new studio building (and dish) built in 2016. You might want to check GE to see if your dish is visible.
And if your studios have been moved, or a new dish installed, since the last GE update....?
The aerial view is old, but the street view is new, and shows the new site. I made a note of that in the application.

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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by grich » Thu May 17, 2018 10:01 am

grich wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:56 pm
Classic Harris Delta Gain dish. I may have placed a manual for one in the recycle pile last week...might be recoverable if you need it.

They aren't 2-degree compliant, so I was told. One of my clients still uses one for EWTN on Galaxy 19. We registered it last year (with a PCN).

Another client demo'ed one last year as part of the AMC18 move.
Flipped through the manual when I was on-site the other night. As I recall, gain is 41 dB.

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KC9AIC
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Re: RX-only C-band receive station registration, form 312

Post by KC9AIC » Thu May 24, 2018 3:06 pm

grich wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 10:01 am
grich wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:56 pm
Classic Harris Delta Gain dish. I may have placed a manual for one in the recycle pile last week...might be recoverable if you need it.

They aren't 2-degree compliant, so I was told. One of my clients still uses one for EWTN on Galaxy 19. We registered it last year (with a PCN).

Another client demo'ed one last year as part of the AMC18 move.
Flipped through the manual when I was on-site the other night. As I recall, gain is 41 dB.
Thanks for the gain figure, grich! Though I have no documentation on my 3 meter Delta Gain dish, I have found two contemporary sources that both indicate that the Delta Gain line is 2 degree compliant:

Coop's Satellite Digest from April 1983 has an article stretching from pages 24 to 30. A caption on page 30 states that
meeting FCC requirements tor 2 degree spacing was a design obiective of the Delta Gain antenna series.
Broadcast Management/Engineering from July 1983 mentions 2 degree spacing twice. Page 56 discusses the Harris 6.1 meter Delta Gain dish, saying that
The improved sidelobe performance makes it possible to meet two- and three-degree satellite orbital spacings recently affirmed by the FCC as the U.S. proposal at this year's Region II Administrative Regional Council meeting to increase the number of satellites available in the Western hemisphere.
A caption on page 58 states that
The Harris 6.1-meter delta gain antenna, with its new shape, offers improved sidelobe performance for use in two- or three-degree satellite spacing.

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