Suppressing Windows 10 Update and Forced Reboots

Meet our new DJ. His name is Otto Mayshun.
User avatar
Bill DeFelice
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 6:29 pm
Location: Fairfield County, CT
Contact:

Suppressing Windows 10 Update and Forced Reboots

Post by Bill DeFelice » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:33 am

Sometimes trying to explain things to somebody who's neither in the biz or has any tech savvy can be a challenge. I'm dealing with somebody who is insistent in wanting to migrate their station on-air automation (as well as other systems) over to Windows 10. While some might argue that Win10 is much more stable the habit of unpredictable, unplanned update installs the the often times inconvenient forced reboot is not necessarily the best thing for a mission critical system.

I remembered I had once used the feature of defining the Ethernet network connection as being a metered connection but I had heard somewhere that Windows 10 no longer allows this behavior. I haven't been able to confirm this so I'm not entirely certain if this is still a viable solution.

Short of them going for the Enterprise version of Win 10 and setting up the appropriate GPO to prevent updates has anyone found a alternative solution when operating under Windows 10 Pro?
Webmaster
History of Westport Connecticut Radio
The WMMM Tribute Site

CampusBroadcaster.net
Legal, low power, license-free broadcasting for educational institutions

radio_guru
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:23 pm
Location: Illinoid

Re: Suppressing Windows 10 Update and Forced Reboots

Post by radio_guru » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:46 pm

We're exploring that issue now. We have found that Win10 has only one version that does not readily install updates as MS wants/chooses. That is Win 10 LTSC (Long Term Service Channel). It is intended, however, for large organizations and can only be bought through a volume licensing plan. It's implied by that only means of acquisition MS wants this version to be carefully deployed and managed/used by a seasoned professional IT staff and not the casual user.

Another possible option is Windows 10 IoT. It's a very scaled back version along the lines of an embedded OS for use within appliances. For an automation system or single purpose machine, this version might work. It's something we're going to try (presuming we can license a developers copy) when we hire a new IT person sometime early next year for our next generation automation machines. However, for a general purpose machine or something which will have a lot of hands-on day-to-day use (production, etc), it may not be the most suitable given it's driver array is extremely limited....by design. eg., it does not support intense graphics use.

Good luck and report back your results....

RG

TPT
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:18 pm
Location: St. Marys, WV

Re: Suppressing Windows 10 Update and Forced Reboots

Post by TPT » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:51 pm

To answer your implied question--pick up a cheap refurb computer with Windows 10. Show your customer what happens when you turn it on (as it begins ten minutes of updates). Then ask him if he wants his station to go dead unexpectedly while Microshaft forces the updates to make sure you have the latest edition of Minecraft.

And it is not just the down time while the updates run. We've had updates delete sound cards --in the middle of the night--on air computers. Yes, you can run automation completely divorced from the internet. But when you have limited staff and many locations remote access becomes a necessity.

We bought a couple "mini-computers" like a Z83-W Fanless Mini PC (search Amazon for a pic), for a variety of locations that only needed a simple workstation. For example..our new STORQ system/satellite receiver has no monitor provision--instead you view (and control) the program over the station's network. So we use one of these mini computers to drive a monitor in the control room. Also put one in at a transmitter site, just for internet and transmitter access. Have had both lock up because the little machines didn't have enough storage for the forced Windows updates until I deleted several MB worth of games loaded in the initial install.

My IT guy and I have asked a variety of "experts" on how to stop the updates. No-one has an answer that works. He found a a program that allows a reverse to Windows 7, and has done that on some of our crucial computers.

w9wi
Posts: 893
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:40 am
Location: Pleasant View, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: Suppressing Windows 10 Update and Forced Reboots

Post by w9wi » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:11 pm

I've managed to suppress it on the machine in my hamshack. (having it force a reboot during a contest "run" would likely result in the uttering of some words not suitable for broadcast. Although since I work mostly CW, only Ms. Cat would hear them..)

Of course, that happened long enough ago I'm not 100% certain I remember what I did. I know it involved editing the registry but I'm not 100% certain this is the key I added.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate\AU

If the AU key doesn't already exist, create it. Add a DWORD-32 value, "NoAutoRebootWithLoggedOnUsers", and set the value to 1.

It will put a notification in the lower right that you have updates but it won't reboot without your permission.

Unfortunately, I don't put it past Microsoft to make a change that disables this.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View, TN EM66

TPT
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:18 pm
Location: St. Marys, WV

Re: Suppressing Windows 10 Update and Forced Reboots

Post by TPT » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:32 am

There is a registry hack that is supposed to cure this problem--but it doesn't. Apparently prevents Windows from taking over an operating computer. However, if the computer is turned off, or re-started, the update sequence begins again--and the registry entry is re-edited.

radio_guru
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:23 pm
Location: Illinoid

Re: Suppressing Windows 10 Update and Forced Reboots

Post by radio_guru » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:23 pm

There are a number of registry hacks identified and tried. None work long term. MS has one by one written out the loopholes. All you can do is put them on an isolated switch to the outside world and run them without any means to access the WWW.

That means running a machine that is double NIC'd bridging the two networks with a remote access program on that machine and VNC'g into the 'remoted" machines or use a firewall with all but one or two ports disabled and where all WWW ports are shut off.

The question is how long would it take for WIN 10 to learn of those pin holes or relays to reach out and get the updates. Or use shares on other machines connected to the web to spread updates....like a virus.

As I said, we have been looking at this for a couple years. There is a growing chorus of professional enterprise users nagging/pressuring MS to stop this incessant forced rebooting and to make a LTSC version available to more enterprises beyond those with volume purchasing.

RG

spareparts
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:02 pm

Re: Suppressing Windows 10 Update and Forced Reboots

Post by spareparts » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:10 pm


TPT
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:18 pm
Location: St. Marys, WV

Re: Suppressing Windows 10 Update and Forced Reboots

Post by TPT » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:18 pm

Have fun reading all 33 pages of comments.

User avatar
Bill DeFelice
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 6:29 pm
Location: Fairfield County, CT
Contact:

Re: Suppressing Windows 10 Update and Forced Reboots

Post by Bill DeFelice » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:39 am

Unless I missed things while skimming, as in TL;DR, the suggestion I noted was the disable the update service which from the last time I tried that it didn't work.

It's been ahile but I think it was this article, How to set an Ethernet connection as metered on Windows 10, that I used at one of my stations. It's been so long I don't recall and I haven't been able to find my duplicate notebook with my notes.

I just figured with the passage of time that this wouldn't work any more.
Webmaster
History of Westport Connecticut Radio
The WMMM Tribute Site

CampusBroadcaster.net
Legal, low power, license-free broadcasting for educational institutions

radio_guru
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:23 pm
Location: Illinoid

Re: Suppressing Windows 10 Update and Forced Reboots

Post by radio_guru » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:06 pm

Don't bother. As one of the posters wrote on the MS forum, MS is playing a game with it's software licensees. Not only have they written the rules in their favor, they also designed the game board. And the game board changes as MS sees fit.

Look into IoT or the long term support channel versions to get away from the incessant updating.

While also on the subject, the 10/18 semi-annual roll-up contained a flaw and MS is releasing a patch to correct it. However, any data lost as a result of that flaw is lost for good unless it was backed up.

RR

Ray
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:04 am

Re: Suppressing Windows 10 Update and Forced Reboots

Post by Ray » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:18 pm

I just had the same issue for a new server that I use during my day job.

It is a large computer used for simulations that usually take over a week to complete.

The server was always re-booting before a simulation would finish.

We were able to disable the automatic updates last week. The OS is Windows Server 2016 standard.

I'm not sure about the availability of this OS. It looks like Windows 10 interface to the user.

Ray

radio_guru
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:23 pm
Location: Illinoid

Re: Suppressing Windows 10 Update and Forced Reboots

Post by radio_guru » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:31 pm

Server is not WIN 10 (name your flavor). Server doesn't run well on non-Xeon chips and Non-ECC memory...never mind it's $1200 OS.

Server can have it's updates foiled as it's by default a mission critical machine and MS knows that. Why can't MS understand that workstations are also mission critical is beyond me.....

RG

RodeoJack
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri May 29, 2015 12:54 pm
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Contact:

Re: Suppressing Windows 10 Update and Forced Reboots

Post by RodeoJack » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:26 am

As far as I've been able to tell, there's no complete fix to this. Metered connections are ignored if the OS determines you're hardlined. The only compromise I've worked out is to set it to update only the stuff MS deems "necessary", put it in the mode that saves updates up and only hits you with it once or twice a year, and put the update time at a point where the lowest audience would be likely.

Otherwise, all mission critical stuff at my sites is still Win-7. As for stability, I've had Win-7 on mountaintops for years, with zero problems. Yank out everything you don't need, make sure your drivers are compatible with what you're doing, turn off updates and lock the thing down. Most of the time, it'll run until something in the hardware conks out.

Yes... storage is a must. I had some 20 gig setups (signage computers) that bricked themselves over not having enough gigs to work with... and adding flashdrives didn't work.

User avatar
Bill DeFelice
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 6:29 pm
Location: Fairfield County, CT
Contact:

Re: Suppressing Windows 10 Update and Forced Reboots

Post by Bill DeFelice » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:14 pm

RodeoJack wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:26 am
Otherwise, all mission critical stuff at my sites is still Win-7. As for stability, I've had Win-7 on mountaintops for years, with zero problems. Yank out everything you don't need, make sure your drivers are compatible with what you're doing, turn off updates and lock the thing down. Most of the time, it'll run until something in the hardware conks out.
Same here. Win 7 is pretty bulletproof, though I've never tried using NTLite even though I had excellent experience with the now-defunct 98Lite back in the day.
RodeoJack wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:26 am
Yes... storage is a must. I had some 20 gig setups (signage computers) that bricked themselves over not having enough gigs to work with... and adding flashdrives didn't work.
I've had Win7 boxes with 80gb drives pretty much self-distruct over time due to limited drive space, even on limited use hardware such as digital signage or kiosk operations.

I guess I'll have to keep using older hardware to keep from falling victim to Win10.
Webmaster
History of Westport Connecticut Radio
The WMMM Tribute Site

CampusBroadcaster.net
Legal, low power, license-free broadcasting for educational institutions

dbuckley
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:18 pm
Location: North Canterbury, New Zealand

Re: Suppressing Windows 10 Update and Forced Reboots

Post by dbuckley » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:50 pm

I've given up thinking that stopping Windows updates is possible, and it is moderately undesirable in the absence of "proper" IT support.

I now just accept it happens, and plan to have a backup audio source on the silence detector.

Post Reply