Smpte timecode to ESE timecode

It's just radio with pictures! :)
Post Reply
Nathaniel Steele
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:02 pm
Location: Tennessee

Smpte timecode to ESE timecode

Post by Nathaniel Steele » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:44 am

Hello, I have an EVERTZ 5600 MSC master clock. I have other equipment that wants ESE TC-89. I have very little budget. Whats the cheapest way to get ESE TC-89 from say SMPTE or NTP? I can find very little info on the actual differences or protocol of ESE, I suppose they don't hand that out though there are NON ESE made devices that read and or generate it. It doesn't seem like this is a problem that should cost hundreds or thousands of dollars to solve, but the cheapest solution I can find now seems to be the broadcast tools NTP server at about $400.

Or am I dumb and the evertz can generate ESE timecode? it's a big manual I suppose I could have missed it...

User avatar
PID_Stop
Posts: 621
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:58 am
Location: Syracuse, New York
Contact:

Re: Smpte timecode to ESE timecode

Post by PID_Stop » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:12 am

Funny you should post this: we just replaced an ESE 185 master clock with an Evertz 5601-MSC system, and had this exact issue. The Evertz produces several different flavors of timecode that mostly seem to affect how the date is presented:
  • "Legacy Date", which is compatible with older Leitch master clocks,
  • "Production Date", which formats the date as "yymmddrr", where "rr" is the frame rate,
  • "SMPTE-309 MJD", which formats the date as "zzdddddd", where "zz" is the time zone and "dddddd" is a Julian day count,
  • "SMPTE-309 BCD", which formats the date as "zzyymmdd", where "zz" is the time zone
The other options encode something other than the date, and so wouldn't be relevant.

We ended up using the "Legacy" Leitch format, since it's the common format that everything in our plant can be made to accept. Even most ESE gear is happy with Leitch time code, though you sometimes have to change a dipswitch to make it happen.

One word of advice: the Evertz default settings have the time code "jam sync" to the GPS time at midnight GMT, which is a bad idea: having the time code jump a number of frames out of sequence at the same moment the date changes really confuses some automation systems (ours especially). We have the jam sync take place at 02:00, and that makes everything a lot happier. Notice that each of the Evertz outputs where time code can appear (LTC1 and 2, each sync output if you're encoding VITC, each test generator output) has a separate setting for when to jam its time code.

Best of luck!

Jeff

Nathaniel Steele
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:02 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: Smpte timecode to ESE timecode

Post by Nathaniel Steele » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:25 pm

Thanks Jeff, I'll give the "Legacy" lietch format a try.

NECRAT
Site Admin
Posts: 3110
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:13 pm
Location: Taunton, MA
Contact:

Re: Smpte timecode to ESE timecode

Post by NECRAT » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:43 pm

Nathaniel Steele wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:44 am

Or am I dumb and the evertz can generate ESE timecode? it's a big manual I suppose I could have missed it...
Nope. Valid Question. ESE TC is proprietary to them, and for the most part they only sell SMPTE equipment now.
Anyways, you're going to want an ESE ES-462U, which takes ESE TC and converts it to SMPTE TC to do that.
Or replace your clocks with SMPTE clocks. Honestly, the single converter is the less expensive option.
http://www.necrat.us

"Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig. After a couple of hours, you realize the pig likes it"

User avatar
PID_Stop
Posts: 621
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:58 am
Location: Syracuse, New York
Contact:

Re: Smpte timecode to ESE timecode

Post by PID_Stop » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:07 am

NECRAT wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:43 pm
Nathaniel Steele wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:44 am

Or am I dumb and the evertz can generate ESE timecode? it's a big manual I suppose I could have missed it...
Nope. Valid Question. ESE TC is proprietary to them, and for the most part they only sell SMPTE equipment now.
Anyways, you're going to want an ESE ES-462U, which takes ESE TC and converts it to SMPTE TC to do that.
Or replace your clocks with SMPTE clocks. Honestly, the single converter is the less expensive option.
Wouldn't the converter need to work in the opposite direction if he's replacing an ESE generator with an Evertz? My experience here was that most of our devices -- clocks especially -- didn't care about the difference between ESE TC-89 and Leitch format, especially devices that don't need the date. As it turns out, the only device that really had a hissy fit was an ESE VITC inserter, but since the Evertz 5601 already inserts VITC in the reference outputs, it was a moot point (though it created big problems during the migration, when we were taking time code from the Evertz and black burst from our old system). In any case, I would be reluctant to insert more ESE gear into a plant, especially in a critical function. Our ESE master clock failing after only a few years is precisely what led to getting the new Evertz gear...

Jeff

Nathaniel Steele
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:02 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: Smpte timecode to ESE timecode

Post by Nathaniel Steele » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:54 pm

I'm not even replacing an ESE generator, we never had one. We are primarily a radio plant, with a small and simple Cable tv channel (Computer>modulator>fiber converter>CATV Headend). it generates probaly 1-2% of our annual revenue so much money is not spent on it. Our Radio Consoles have built in clocks that will freerun, or sync to ESE TC89 or TC90, and our symetrix profanity delays can be inserted into the chain and the radio console clock will then show the delayed time (generaly a 20 second delay). I came into the EVERTZ used at a really low price and since we needed a good GPS derived NTP clock (we've had issues syncing to the internet pools and our satellite breaks get sloppy), I picked it up. It will definitely be useful for the TV part of our operation as I am able to upgrade itas well, and I got a great deal on it.

I rounded up a really long bnc cable from my garage to run down the hall and test the leitch timecode. Does anyone know off hand will the timecode connectors be 50 ohm or 75ohm (hopefully)?

Thanks again!

User avatar
PID_Stop
Posts: 621
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:58 am
Location: Syracuse, New York
Contact:

Re: Smpte timecode to ESE timecode

Post by PID_Stop » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:35 pm

Nathaniel Steele wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:54 pm
I rounded up a really long bnc cable from my garage to run down the hall and test the leitch timecode. Does anyone know off hand will the timecode connectors be 50 ohm or 75ohm (hopefully)?
We use 75 ohm connectors simply because that's what we have; unlike N connectors which have smaller center pins for 75 ohms, BNC connectors are mechanically interchangeable. Longitudinal time code runs at audio frequencies anyway, so an impedance mismatch isn't going to make a significant difference. Also unlike video, unbalanced LTC doesn't need to be terminated.

Jeff

Post Reply